--- Log opened Wed Dec 14 19:59:05 2011 UTC+2
14/19:59-!- celeron55 [~perttu@a91-155-45-98.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #IndieCity.gamers
14/19:59-!- Irssi: #indiecity.gamers: Total of 10 nicks [3 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 7 normal]
14/19:59-!- Irssi: Join to #indiecity.gamers was synced in 1 secs
14/19:59-!- trentg [~trentg@pdpc/supporter/active/trentg] has joined #IndieCity.gamers
14/19:59< ponyodev|ICDev> Er00 set the topic to "Welcome to the IndieCity Gamer Q&A :D! And ponyodev is the best indie dev of all of them!"
14/19:59< gn0me|dev> lol :)
14/19:59<@Er00> Nah, I think it's ok the way it is ;p
14/19:59 * ponyodev|ICDev shows Er00 the bribe
14/20:00 * gn0me|dev shows ponyodev|ICDev the bible
14/20:00< gn0me|dev> dont ask why
14/20:00 * ponyodev|ICDev accepts it
14/20:00< gn0me|dev> damn
14/20:00< gn0me|dev> :)
14/20:00 * ponyodev|ICDev then says he only will accept your offer if it comes with grilled cheese
14/20:01-!- ponyodev|ICDev is now known as TheRealEr00
14/20:01< TheRealEr00> :D
14/20:01< gn0me|dev> So... not much gamers here yet
14/20:01<@Er00> convincing, Ponyo ;p
14/20:01< TheRealEr00> no shit sherlock
14/20:02-!- TheRealEr00 is now known as ponyodev|Er00Roc
14/20:02< ponyodev|Er00Roc> now will you change the topic
14/20:02-!- ponyodev|Er00Roc is now known as ponyodev|Er00Rox
14/20:02-!- gn0me|dev is now known as me
14/20:02< ponyodev|Er00Rox> hi me
14/20:02 * me thinks
14/20:02-!- ponyodev|Er00Rox is now known as you
14/20:02< you> tube
14/20:03< me> lol
14/20:03 * you tube
14/20:03-!- me is now known as Guest58109
14/20:03-!- you is now known as and
14/20:03< Guest58109> ok. we spamming it a bit xD
14/20:03< Guest58109> uahaha
14/20:03 * and .
14/20:03-!- Guest58109 is now known as gn0me
14/20:03-!- and is now known as depree
14/20:03 * depree .
14/20:03-!- depree is now known as ponyodev|Er00Rox
14/20:03< ponyodev|Er00Rox> sup gamers
14/20:03< ponyodev|Er00Rox> oh wait
14/20:03< ponyodev|Er00Rox> there nonexistent
14/20:04< ChrisSwan> Right then, let's have a meeting
14/20:04< gn0me> hmm
14/20:04 * ChrisSwan looks around
14/20:04< ChrisSwan> Hmmm....
14/20:04< ChrisSwan> Not quite the audience I expected ;-)
14/20:05< gn0me> not really
14/20:05< ChrisSwan> Well, we're all here so shall we try and make good use of our time?
14/20:05< ChrisSwan> Can you all remove your developer hats and chat to us from a gamer's perspective??
14/20:05-!- qwebirc48698 [c8b9e032@gateway/web/freenode/ip.200.185.224.50] has joined #IndieCity.gamers
14/20:05< ponyodev|Er00Rox> I've censored the following, in protest of a bill that gives any corporation and the US government the power to censor the internet--a bill that could pass THIS WEEK. To see the uncensored text, and to stop internet censorship, visit:
14/20:05< ponyodev|Er00Rox> http://americancensorship.org/posts/13181/uncensor
14/20:05< ponyodev|Er00Rox> █████ ████ is the ████ ████ of all but now the ████████ ████ ██████ it
14/20:06<@DrPiD> ponyodev|Er00Rox: please don't spam the channel
14/20:06< ponyodev|Er00Rox> DrPiD:no spam,activism
14/20:06< ponyodev|Er00Rox> :D
14/20:06<@Er00> Hey qwebirc48698 :)
14/20:06<@DrPiD> I don't want to mute you all
14/20:06-!- Chris_EF [6db09e45@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.176.158.69] has joined #IndieCity.gamers
14/20:06<@Er00> ponyodev|Er00Rox: if you continue to spam,we'll mute you ;)
14/20:06< ponyodev|Er00Rox> sup qwebirc48698
14/20:06 * ponyodev|Er00Rox shows Er00 the bribe again
14/20:06< ChrisSwan> So we were thinking about doing the following in this meeting:
14/20:06< ChrisSwan> 1, Explain the reasoning behind IndieCity
14/20:07< ChrisSwan> 2, What's in place now
14/20:07< ChrisSwan> 3, What's coming next
14/20:07< ChrisSwan> 4, Get your GAMER feedback on that
14/20:07< ChrisSwan> 5, Brainstorm other things that we could do.
14/20:07< ponyodev|Er00Rox> ChrisSwan:sounds good.
14/20:07< ChrisSwan> Does that work for people? Any other items?
14/20:07< ponyodev|Er00Rox> no
14/20:07< ponyodev|Er00Rox> ill log the channel and post to the forums incase anyone miss's the meeting
14/20:08< ChrisSwan> erm... ok thanks!
14/20:08< ChrisSwan> So, point 1) Reason for IndieCity.
14/20:08< ChrisSwan> Do people want the long or short version?
14/20:08< ChrisSwan> ;-)
14/20:08< ponyodev|Er00Rox> long
14/20:08< ChrisSwan> Blast
14/20:09< ChrisSwan> Ok....
14/20:09< ponyodev|Er00Rox> IndieCity is a new and exciting way to find all the awesome games you have been missing out while playing mainstream games.
14/20:09< ChrisSwan> Well about 4 years ago I headed up and formed something called the Blitz 1UP iniative.
14/20:09< ponyodev|Er00Rox> theres one sentance...
14/20:09< ChrisSwan> Nice one ponyodev|Er00Rox
14/20:10< ChrisSwan> And Blitz 1UP was about helping indie devs finish their games and get them to market.
14/20:10-!- qwebirc64376 [5ea85dc8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.168.93.200] has joined #IndieCity.gamers
14/20:10<@Er00> Hey qwebirc64376 :)
14/20:10< ChrisSwan> The initiative provided things like QA, audio production, translations,PR help and distribution
14/20:10< ChrisSwan> We helped about 20 titles iirc
14/20:10-!- qwebirc64376 is now known as Ergo
14/20:11< ChrisSwan> But the main thing that made the initiative fail was the distribution aspect
14/20:11-!- ponyodev|Er00Rox is now known as ponyodev|inmanch
14/20:11< ChrisSwan> The games were all of good quality and a wide range of genres and styles
14/20:11-!- Roroprata [~Roroprata@200-185-224-50.user.ajato.com.br] has joined #IndieCity.gamers
14/20:11< ChrisSwan> But it basically became: if you get on a certain major portal you're making money, otherwise there isn't a decent destination for you.
14/20:12< ChrisSwan> So we started to focus on that aspect.
14/20:12< ChrisSwan> Then thinking as GAMERS we realised that it's true, there isn't a single place that captures the full indie scene.
14/20:12< ChrisSwan> Not even close.
14/20:12< ChrisSwan> If you think about all forms of entertainment you have the high end professionals
14/20:13< ChrisSwan> The 'were-indies-who-have-hit-the-big-time'
14/20:13< ChrisSwan> Then the somewhat established indies
14/20:13< ChrisSwan> Those doing for the art itself
14/20:13< ChrisSwan> And those just learning.
14/20:13< ChrisSwan> If you look at books there pretty much is a one-stop shop for all of that.
14/20:14< Ergo> Hey Er00
14/20:14< ChrisSwan> Between iTune and Spotify it;s the same for music
14/20:14-!- [IC]Digger [~IC]Digger@87.112.186.45] has joined #IndieCity.gamers
14/20:14< ChrisSwan> Film has Netflix and now Fandor
14/20:14< ChrisSwan> (it's not so good here in Europe though)
14/20:14< ChrisSwan> But games had that whole piece missing.
14/20:15< ChrisSwan> As an indie gamer I found I was spending more time hunting down games than actually playing them!
14/20:15< ChrisSwan> So with both of those views we sat down and created the initial plan for IndieCity.
14/20:15< ChrisSwan> We wanted to make a site that celebrates and caters for ALL indie games
14/20:16< ChrisSwan> whether a students first title, or a more established indie sequel, or a pure 'artsy' game.
14/20:16< ChrisSwan> So that's why we came up with the CAP process.
14/20:16-!- DawnOfPlay [598e1dfb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.142.29.251] has joined #IndieCity.gamers
14/20:16<@Er00> Cater for ALL the games! http://cdn1.lostateminor.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/hyperbole-website.jpg
14/20:16<@Er00> Hey DawnOfPlay :)
14/20:16< ChrisSwan> Then to tap into all of that content we firmed up on having a comprehensive recommendation engine.
14/20:16< DawnOfPlay> Hey :)
14/20:17< ChrisSwan> So that each gamer has their own view and each can find their gaming 'niche'
14/20:17< ChrisSwan> And from there we started building up the other features:
14/20:17< ChrisSwan> SDK with achievements and leaderboards
14/20:17< ChrisSwan> ratings, reviews
14/20:17< ChrisSwan> Kinda standard 'must-haves' if you like.
14/20:18< ChrisSwan> When choosing the system we chose to use a cloud-based approach
14/20:18< ChrisSwan> which means we can pretty much scale up with demand,
14/20:18-!- FuzzYspo0N [~FuzzYspo0@197.108.210.69] has joined #IndieCity.gamers
14/20:18< ChrisSwan> which reduces server costs, and allows us to give devs a great rev share.
14/20:19-!- Ragath [~IceChat77@188.122.128.21] has joined #IndieCity.gamers
14/20:19< ChrisSwan> So we've been through the whole branding exercise, architecutre development etc and now have the first set of games on site.
14/20:20< ChrisSwan> Does that give people enough background?
14/20:20-!- davecheesefish [~davechees@5ac48d92.bb.sky.com] has joined #IndieCity.gamers
14/20:21< trentg> Yes
14/20:21< ChrisSwan> Thanks :-)
14/20:21< ChrisSwan> So we now have the basics of a site up and running,
14/20:21< ChrisSwan> and with today's build we have the 5 star rating system in place.
14/20:21< ChrisSwan> And under the bonnet the recommendation engine is fully up and running.
14/20:22< ChrisSwan> It will initially build your personalised shelves,
14/20:22< ChrisSwan> but will then look at what games you rate and play, and will receommend any titles that 'fit' with your tastes.
14/20:22< ChrisSwan> Of course now we really need more content, hence the developer challenge.
14/20:23< ChrisSwan> The next immediate items that we plan on implementing are:
14/20:23< ChrisSwan> a review system (with the whole 'was this helpful' aspect
14/20:23< ChrisSwan> The points system
14/20:24< ChrisSwan> Which can be used to a) BRAG! and b) to get free merch
14/20:24< ChrisSwan> And a blogging platform.
14/20:24< ChrisSwan> There's 2 parts to that last one.
14/20:24< ChrisSwan> The first is the ability for a developer to plug in the RSS of their current blog
14/20:24< celeron55> a quick-and-dirty log of the beginning for the recent joiners: http://c55.me/random/2011-12/indiecity.gamers_begin.log
14/20:24< ChrisSwan> Since many devs already have one and there's no point in trying to maintain two of them.
14/20:25< ChrisSwan> But we also want to provide an IndieCity blog per developer/gamer
14/20:25-!- qwebirc89201 [5253cde9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.83.205.233] has joined #IndieCity.gamers
14/20:25< ChrisSwan> The thinking here is that some gamers/devs in the comomunity will like to write about the knids of games that they like to play.
14/20:25< ChrisSwan> Critiquing them, responding the dev blogs they're following.
14/20:26< ChrisSwan> And over time we'd expect more and more gamers to follow's these people's blogs, if they also like that 'niche'
14/20:26< ChrisSwan> So essentially there would be lots of 'major nelson in the early days' types,
14/20:26< ChrisSwan> who are experts in their fields, they get the kudos of doing the aggregating,
14/20:27< ChrisSwan> and everyone else has an easier life tracking which games they want to play.
14/20:27-!- qwebirc899 [ade6bb0e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.230.187.14] has joined #IndieCity.gamers
14/20:27< celeron55> (the log is now updating all the time and will be available for the next hours, feel free to put into title)
14/20:27<@Er00> qwebirc guys, you can change your nick by using /nick nickname :)
14/20:27< ChrisSwan> Then we'd be looking to implement the Activity Feed.
14/20:27<@Er00> celeron55: thanks, I'll stick it in the topic in a sec :)
14/20:28< ChrisSwan> This is a similar feature to social network layouts:
14/20:28-!- qwebirc89201 is now known as Kane
14/20:28-!- qwebirc899 is now known as JibbSmart
14/20:28< ChrisSwan> You'd have a feed on your homepage full of recommended content.
14/20:28-!- Er00 changed the topic of #IndieCity.gamers to: IndieCity channel for gamers! Log of 14th Dec chat so far available here - http://c55.me/random/2011-12/indiecity.gamers_begin.log
14/20:28< celeron55> Er00: i'll quickly rename it, wait a second... it's now http://c55.me/random/2011-12/indiecity.gamers.log
14/20:28<@Er00> rofl
14/20:28<@Er00> ok ;
14/20:28<@Er00> ;P
14/20:28< ChrisSwan> Sure, there will be new demo and full game suggestions,
14/20:28-!- Er00 changed the topic of #IndieCity.gamers to: IndieCity channel for gamers! Log of 14th Dec chat so far available here - http://c55.me/random/2011-12/indiecity.gamers.log
14/20:28-!- Kane is now known as Guest62398
14/20:28< ChrisSwan> but also blog suggestions,
14/20:28< ChrisSwan> perhaps offers from IC
14/20:28< ChrisSwan> Things like introduce yourself on the forum for 30 points
14/20:29< ChrisSwan> etc, etc. It'll grow over time.
14/20:29< ChrisSwan> We see this working almost as a to-do list.
14/20:29< ChrisSwan> You could come to the site, deal with your acticity feed, gain some points, and be up to speed with your own gaming news.
14/20:30< ChrisSwan> I'd hope that around this point we'll be setting up the merch store as well.
14/20:30< ChrisSwan> And we ultimately want to automate this so that the devs can supply t-shirt designs that gamers can buy.
14/20:30< ChrisSwan> (or spend their points on).
14/20:30< ChrisSwan> Further afield we are then thinking of:
14/20:31 * gn0me thinks its awesome
14/20:31< ChrisSwan> a social network, so that you can connect with gamers similar to yourselves
14/20:31< ChrisSwan> (gn0me - thanks!)
14/20:31< ChrisSwan> A Smartphone App/view of the site so that you can easily deal with your activity feed while on the go.
14/20:31-!- ansjh [~A@unaffiliated/ansjh] has joined #IndieCity.gamers
14/20:31< ansjh> gaaaamiiiing!
14/20:32< Ragath> thats nice and all in concept, but im wondering if the slow pace of game dev isnt going to make the activity feed a bit stale? since game devs put games out maybe 3 times a year at most, compared to youtube videos for example that gets put out once a week/day
14/20:32< ChrisSwan> Sure, but I don't expect the gamers to follow a single dev.
14/20:32< ChrisSwan> Think Amazon and book recommendations.
14/20:32< celeron55> indeed, the amount of games will balance that
14/20:33< ChrisSwan> This smartphone app will also allow you to 'push' demos and games to your download client, and if it's running they will download automatically
14/20:33< ChrisSwan> And DLC
14/20:33< ChrisSwan> Which we thought we'd support early on but is proving to be a surprising nightmare :-/
14/20:33 * ChrisSwan looks at his aching wrists from typing too much.
14/20:34< ChrisSwan> let's have some feedback. What do people think about this plan / roadmap?
14/20:34< ChrisSwan> Not all at once now :-p
14/20:34 * gn0me hear crickets somewhere near
14/20:35< Ragath> yea im just wondering how the users will find their niche of devs? subscribe to them individually? cause i imagine that'd take ages before you reach a number that gives you a reason to visit once or twice a week to check the feed
14/20:35< ChrisSwan> You wouldn't need to go and check the individual blog feed.
14/20:35< celeron55> once or twice a week sounds perfectly fine to me; it's not like i wouldn't have anything else to do than check dev feeds all the time
14/20:35< ChrisSwan> It would all be pulled into your single activity feed.
14/20:35< ChrisSwan> So when you go to your homepage you'll see things like:
14/20:36< ChrisSwan> 'updated blog post from ragath'
14/20:36< ChrisSwan> 'new demo from ponyodev'
14/20:36< ChrisSwan> 'comment from your friend TheFinn'
14/20:36< Ragath> yea but what i meant was the time it would take before new content appear on your homepage feed
14/20:36< ChrisSwan> 'new DLC for Star Sky'
14/20:36< Ergo> All sounds good to me
14/20:37< ChrisSwan> Ragath - it'll be up to you really how much content you subscribe to.
14/20:37< ChrisSwan> A bit like say an rss reader
14/20:37< celeron55> it's like pretty much anything on the internet where you can subscribe to stuff; youtube, reddit and so on
14/20:38< ChrisSwan> yep
14/20:38< ChrisSwan> And don't forget it's not just dev actitvities that you'd recieve
14/20:38< ChrisSwan> Gamers will be blogging too
14/20:38< ChrisSwan> About their individual areas of expertise.
14/20:38< ChrisSwan> For example I really go for abstract games, games that question whether they are games, that kind thing.
14/20:39<@Er00> And you don't necessarily *have* to check frequently if you don't want to...if you don't mind getting news a bit late and only follow one person then you might be ok with only checking once a month or so
14/20:39< Ragath> yea thats what i meant, say on youtube you subscribe to 3-4 channels and you get enough content to make you want to read your feed every day, to want to read your IC feed once a week i could imagine that would require you subscribing to 50-something devs
14/20:39< ChrisSwan> And it'd be great to be able to follow others talking about just those kinds of games.
14/20:39< ChrisSwan> Ragath but I think that's fine.
14/20:39< ChrisSwan> I dread to think how many blogs are in my Google Reader!
14/20:40< ChrisSwan> Any other thoughts?
14/20:40< ChrisSwan> Any other features that we're overlooking for gamers?
14/20:41<@Er00> Wow, apparently we're awesome and already thought of everything O.o
14/20:41 * ChrisSwan isn't convinced that we aren't missing *something* at least.
14/20:41< ChrisSwan> Heh
14/20:41< celeron55> i think that you have gotten most things quite right; not much to complain at least yet
14/20:41< ChrisSwan> Heh - thanks :-)
14/20:41< celeron55> i will make sure to complain if necessary when you release more features 8)
14/20:41<@Er00> ok, so, we're not lacking anything...is there anything we're doing that you think we shouldn't be focusing on?
14/20:41<@Er00> rofl
14/20:42<@Er00> thanks ;)
14/20:42< trentg> One question.. when will the bbq start? Or was that a hoax :(
14/20:42<@Er00> :<
14/20:42< ChrisSwan> That would be awesome...
14/20:42<@DrPiD> Sorry that was a dastardly ruse ;P
14/20:42<@Er00> It's a bit cold for a bbq...
14/20:42< Ragath> ChrisSwan, symbols indicating gamepad and possibly force-feedback support in the game description ;)
14/20:42< ChrisSwan> bbq's are hot tho
14/20:42< trentg> It sounds good to me
14/20:42<@Er00> Well, yes, but you kinda have to do them outside :/
14/20:42< trentg> The IndieCity stuff thatis :)
14/20:42<@Er00> lol
14/20:43< ChrisSwan> Yep, sounds reasonable
14/20:43< ChrisSwan> Do you guys have much experience playing with recommendations on other sites?
14/20:43< [IC]Digger> Ragath, it's on my list ;)
14/20:43< ChrisSwan> Which sites have done well or badly?
14/20:43< Ragath> \o/
14/20:43< ChrisSwan> I find Amazon does a great job, but you have to work pretty hard to keep it maintained...
14/20:44-!- mode/#indiecity.gamers [+vv ChrisSwan [IC]Digger] by Er00
14/20:44<+ChrisSwan> Netflix seems to be very good from what I've seen
14/20:44<+ChrisSwan> iTunes Genius? Not so good imo.
14/20:44<+[IC]Digger> eBay's a bad one
14/20:44<+[IC]Digger> recommends me stuff i'm trying to sell :/
14/20:44<@Er00> eBay has recommendations?
14/20:44<@Er00> O.o
14/20:44<+ChrisSwan> Oh yeah - not great at all!
14/20:45< Ragath> imdb works well for the mainstream stuff and terrible for the niche stuff
14/20:45<+ChrisSwan> Yep, I bought a firepit and it recommended me an inflatable palm tree...
14/20:45<+ChrisSwan> Ragath that's interesting.
14/20:45<+ChrisSwan> I wonder how it gets one aspect so right and another so wrong...
14/20:45<+ChrisSwan> Not enough data on the niche content?
14/20:46< celeron55> oh, i have one thing from a gamer's perspective, actually: i don't like the placement of the key features and the longer explanation on a game page; there should be more focus on the long description
14/20:46< celeron55> maybe swap their places or something
14/20:46< davecheesefish> Er00: I'm here too :<
14/20:46<+ChrisSwan> celeron55 Thanks, that's a good one.
14/20:46< celeron55> (and this is very much only an opinion)
14/20:46<@Er00> davecheesefish: be less quiet!
14/20:46-!- mode/#indiecity.gamers [+v davecheesefish] by Er00
14/20:46<+ChrisSwan> [IC]Digger has been working up a refined layout that pretty much does just that.
14/20:47<+ChrisSwan> What about recommended emails?
14/20:47<+ChrisSwan> Which sites do them well? How often is too often?
14/20:47< Ragath> ChrisSwan, well im just guessing they take what people that rated it have watched and liked, so naturally you almost only get mainstream stuff in the recommendations(meaning that you get completely unrelated stuff if your niche isnt even remotely catered for in the mainstream section)
14/20:47-!- Guest62398 [5253cde9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.83.205.233] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
14/20:48<+davecheesefish> Er00: It's hard to type on my phone! :(
14/20:48< Ergo> Wow, my graphics card isn't good enough for MotorHEAT. That's... depressing
14/20:48<+[IC]Digger> ChrisSwan... quick idea to note... recent activity email that users could opt-in to
14/20:48<@Er00> Ergo: it needs XNA HiDef profile so quite a few people's cards aren't :(
14/20:48<+ChrisSwan> [IC]Digger yep, nice one
14/20:49< celeron55> XNA requires ridiculous computer specs compared to the games that are made with it :P
14/20:49<+ChrisSwan> Oh, that's a good area to dicuss.
14/20:49<+ChrisSwan> As GAMERS (not devs!) what do people think of the minimum specs area?
14/20:49< Ragath> does your recommendation engine do something to lower the chance of the overall most popular games  getting biased in your feed?
14/20:49<+ChrisSwan> Yes.
14/20:50< gn0me> Intel GFX i supose
14/20:50<@Er00> Not really, the problem is that it's a binary thing, either Reach or HiDef, rather than a sliding scale. I suspect if games would *run* on non-HiDef cards they'd sometimes run ok, but they fail out because they don't meet the spec. :(
14/20:50<@Er00> (uh, that was at celeron55 :P)
14/20:50< Ergo> Well, I've only tried 2 so far (MotorHEAT and Punish the birds). Punish the Birds worked fine, so I can't really moan that much
14/20:50<@Er00> I think it would be neat if you could tell IC your computer's specs and it automatically put labels on things you probably can't run
14/20:51< gn0me> nice idea
14/20:51<+ChrisSwan> There are a few algorithms to the recommendation, but they won't lead you to only the most popular games.
14/20:51<+ChrisSwan> It will priorities the popular ones in your areas of interest though.
14/20:51< celeron55> there could be some selectable modes for the recommendation engine, one being "hardcore indie - do not show any mainstream games" :-)
14/20:52< Ergo> Something like 'Can You Run It?' for indies (Can You Run Indies?) could be a helpful feature at some point
14/20:52<+davecheesefish> Er00: what about multi-computer people?
14/20:52< Ragath> yea being able to select HiDef/Reach as the minimum spec for XNA games would be great, could easily even provide a tool to let ppl check their system for what will run
14/20:52<@Er00> davecheesefish: you should be able to specify multiple computer setups and name them
14/20:52<@Er00> so then IC could say like "warning, this probably won't run on computer "Home Desktop""
14/20:52<+davecheesefish> Makes sense :)
14/20:52<@Er00> I sometimes do! :D
14/20:53<+davecheesefish> Sometimes :p
14/20:53<+ChrisSwan> So would people be happy submitting their specs?
14/20:53<@Er00> I'd say "often" but someone would disagree. ;)
14/20:53<+ChrisSwan> or what if we had an 'at a glance' label or something that said low, medium or high spec
14/20:53<+ChrisSwan> Generalised but might work for many?
14/20:53<@Er00> an at a glance label would be a good start, I think
14/20:53<@Er00> the problem is how to calibrate that ;p
14/20:53<+ChrisSwan> (I'm not saying we then remove the details btw)
14/20:54<@Er00> One person's "low" might be another's "high"
14/20:54<+ChrisSwan> Really?
14/20:54<+davecheesefish> Or another's "whut?!"
14/20:54<@Er00> Especially when it comes to thinks like work based machines which tend to be cpu and ram high but graphics card low
14/20:54<+ChrisSwan> Maybe I guess.
14/20:54< trentg> What about something like th Windows Performance Index that could benchmark your machine
14/20:54< celeron55> also in the long run those ratings will change due to computers getting faster
14/20:54< trentg> Or just the WPI itself
14/20:54<+ChrisSwan> trentg Yeah, we could go that way
14/20:54<+ChrisSwan> Always feels a bit invasive to me.
14/20:55<+ChrisSwan> celeron55 True...
14/20:55<@Er00> The good thing about WPI is it gives a breakdown across a number of area
14/20:55<@Er00> *areas
14/20:55< Ragath> just gotta make sure its heavily biased to not cause false positives, cause thats when ppl start ignoring it
14/20:55<@Er00> Which kinda solves the "I have an awesome cpu and a lot of ram, but onboard graphics..."
14/20:56<+davecheesefish> The client could analyse your machine and see if you've got the right spec
14/20:56< celeron55> ChrisSwan: that could be solved by dynamically creating the value of developer-specified absolute values like now
14/20:56< celeron55> out of*
14/20:56<@Er00> davecheesefish: yeah, I was considering that, but that's a lot of work our end for something which could probably be done just as easily (and more happily) by gamers
14/20:56<+ChrisSwan> celeron55 yes, it could - I quite like that :-)
14/20:56<@Er00> who might not want to run random "investigate my PC" programs
14/20:57<+ChrisSwan> Er00 Not sure that I'd want to.
14/20:57<@Er00> Exactly
14/20:57< Ragath> Er00, doing a DX query is hardly investigating :P
14/20:57< celeron55> something simple could be integrated to the client
14/20:57<@Er00> Ragath: you know what I mean :)
14/20:57<@Er00> We could just get them to submit a dxdiag ;p
14/20:57<@Er00> but yeah, people don't like running stuff like that
14/20:58<@DrPiD> could make it optional like the Steam Hardware Survey
14/20:58<@Er00> it feels a lot more "intimate" than just submitting your specs via a webpage
14/20:58<+ChrisSwan> Aye, possibly.
14/20:58< celeron55> but... is there any other topic worth discussing?
14/20:58<+ChrisSwan> heh - yep, I'm happy to move on :-)
14/20:58<+ChrisSwan> Looks like min specs is as thorny an area as we'd expected!
14/20:59<+ChrisSwan> Other areas to discuss?
14/20:59< Ragath> how about you let them use a tool to do it automatically and optionally let them manually input their specs
14/20:59< Ragath> would have to be done in the client then tho
14/21:00< celeron55> ChrisSwan: could you give approximate dates when the search, the achievement bar on the left and the reviews will be added on the site?
14/21:00< trentg> Is there a refund policy for games that just don't work at all?
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14/21:01<@DrPiD> trentg: The CAP process really should eliminate that, but the gamer can claim a chargeback via their credit card company
14/21:01<+ChrisSwan> celeron55 the Search bar *hopefully* isn't too far away
14/21:01<+ChrisSwan> It' ties in a lot with the recommendation engine (indexing and caching etc)
14/21:01< celeron55> DrPiD: not all games work on all computers; eg due to specs or just otherwise some obscure bug
14/21:01<+ChrisSwan> So Chris Flynn, our main man in that area doesn't think it's too far away.
14/21:01< celeron55> (that is, CAP cannot elimitate non-working games)
14/21:02<+ChrisSwan> Not this side of Xmas, but I'd hope not too far after.
14/21:02< celeron55> eliminate*
14/21:02<+ChrisSwan> [IC]Digger thoughts on the achievement bar/gamercard?
14/21:02< Ragath> but if there was an altermative to(optionally) specify HiDef/Reach profile in the minimum specs then i dont think ppl would care much about them after that, since everything that isnt HiDef(including non-xna games) runs on pretty much anything
14/21:02< trentg> DrPiD: yes, as you've seen with my game though, I tested on at least 5 computers and you still found a problem
14/21:02-!- qwebirc18552 [c6bd8cb7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.189.140.183] has joined #IndieCity.gamers
14/21:03<@Er00> Hey qwebirc18552, you can change your name with /nick <name>
14/21:03<@Er00> :)
14/21:03<@DrPiD> trentg: Indeed, but we did catch that one :D But like I said, the only route the gamer has at the moment is via the chargeback mechanism
14/21:03<+[IC]Digger> ChrisSwan Sometime with in Q1 I would imagine
14/21:03< trentg> Okie
14/21:03-!- qwebirc18552 is now known as Chris_Caplan
14/21:04< Ragath> DrPiD, who takes the hit of the overhead chargeback costs, IC or the dev?
14/21:05 * ChrisSwan tried to remember what's in the agreement...
14/21:06<+ChrisSwan> It would be shared between us
14/21:06<+ChrisSwan> "the revenue is the total sums received less credits, chargebacks, refunds"
14/21:06< Ragath> so the costs beyond the deduction from the lost sale is split 50/50?
14/21:07-!- davecheesefish [~davechees@5ac48d92.bb.sky.com] has quit [Quit: phone exploded]
14/21:07< Ragath> ah ok
14/21:07<+ChrisSwan> I think so. Will make a note to check with our legal man on that to be sure.
14/21:08<+ChrisSwan> Anyway, MAWR gamer questions please :-)
14/21:08<+ChrisSwan> What kinds of filter do you want to browse the games with?
14/21:08<+ChrisSwan> We have the tags, but what about 'under X price'?
14/21:08<+ChrisSwan> or 'under Y filesize'?
14/21:08<+ChrisSwan> Or 'free & demo's only'
14/21:09< celeron55> at least the price; under, over, between
14/21:09< trentg> Price for sure, demos for sure
14/21:09< celeron55> system specs and file size indeed
14/21:09< gn0me> filesize doesnt matter theese days much ?
14/21:09< Chris_Caplan> By platform perhaps?
14/21:09<+[IC]Digger> rating?
14/21:09< Ragath> gamepad/local machine multiplayer/networked multiplayer support
14/21:09< trentg> Yes rating as well
14/21:09<+ChrisSwan> Chris_Caplan Yes, good one (over time)
14/21:09<+ChrisSwan> [IC]Digger good one.
14/21:10< gn0me> imho .. rating could make weird situations...
14/21:10< celeron55> gn0me: well, you might want to download a game really fast and not see any of the larger ones, or alternatively want to check how awesome graphics the largest games come with
14/21:10< celeron55> or so
14/21:10<+[IC]Digger> would anyone want them simply alphabetically?
14/21:10<@Er00> yes
14/21:10< Chris_Caplan> The more options the better!
14/21:10<+[IC]Digger> newest/oldest first?
14/21:10< celeron55> just cram in as many options as possible without ruining simplicity too much 8)
14/21:10<+ChrisSwan> celeron55 Always a trick to get right ;-)
14/21:11< trentg> From iTunes, Top Paid/Top Grossing
14/21:11<+[IC]Digger> Order by developer's with facial hair?
14/21:11< gn0me> lol
14/21:11<@Er00> :D
14/21:11< celeron55> i didn't have to input that; should've been mandatory
14/21:11<+ChrisSwan> Damn - we sooo need to capture that info on game submission ;-)
14/21:11<+[IC]Digger> millimetres cubed i think chris
14/21:12< trentg> What about fake beards... some are VERY convincing
14/21:12<+[IC]Digger> :)
14/21:12< DawnOfPlay> why don't you first fix the ratings ... while you chat I file in bug repports. :)
14/21:12< Chris_Caplan> Maybe the website should have a whole section devoted to rating the Dev's facial hair?
14/21:12<+ChrisSwan> :-p
14/21:12<@Er00> wait, I have a major question
14/21:12<@Er00> is this the facial hair the dev has *at the time*
14/21:12<@Er00> or at time of submission?
14/21:12<@Er00> and, what of non-solo games?
14/21:12<@Er00> Is it the average? The sum total?
14/21:12<+[IC]Digger> average
14/21:13< celeron55> average of every dev, during game development
14/21:13< Ragath> the sum ofc.
14/21:13<@Er00> >.<
14/21:13<+[IC]Digger> otherwise you could get a load of hairy fellows to get your game to the top
14/21:13<@Er00> During game dev?!
14/21:13< celeron55> !
14/21:13< trentg> Beards over 12 inches get bonus points
14/21:13<@Er00> I think Chris_Caplan had a good idea actually
14/21:13<@Er00> there should be like "hot or not" but for facial hair
14/21:13< gn0me> whatabout girl developers in that case ? :O
14/21:13<@Er00> and then rank games on that
14/21:14<@Er00> gn0me: girls and computers don't mix. *cough* >.>
14/21:14 * Er00 flees
14/21:14< gn0me> :D
14/21:14< celeron55> i think indiecity will turn to be just a facial hair rating site and the game section will be forgotten
14/21:14<@Er00> DawnOfPlay: DrPiD is dealing with it I think :)
14/21:14<@Er00> celeron55: >.>
14/21:14< trentg> Well this is unexpected... I just shaved my beard last night. I deserve some consideration beard wise
14/21:14< Chris_Caplan> If any girls wants to play with the boys, then she better grow some facial hair!
14/21:14<@Er00> trentg: did you save the hair?
14/21:14< Ragath> gn0me, 1-10 hotness scale ofc.
14/21:14< gn0me> Ragath: but beards... :D
14/21:14< trentg> Er00:
14/21:14 * ChrisSwan waits patiently...
14/21:15< trentg> Er00: of course, but it's in a big bag with the resat
14/21:15<@Er00> O.o
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14/21:15<@Er00> ok, so, um, any other questions? :D
14/21:15-!- Irssi: #indiecity.gamers: Total of 21 nicks [3 ops, 0 halfops, 2 voices, 16 normal]
14/21:15<+[IC]Digger> ChrisSwan I'm sorry :)
14/21:15< celeron55> now everyone go browse the site and pretend to be searching for a game
14/21:15< celeron55> and come back when you get an idea
14/21:16<+ChrisSwan> I've got one: we want to increase the number of people visiting the site and actually signing up, getting the client and buying games
14/21:16< Retronator> Er00: Yeah, I'm probably too angry with the bugs. I'm just having a bad day I guess, Facebook decided to break another webpage I manage ... OAuth problems and so not want to deal with authenticatino stuff right now. :)
14/21:16<+ChrisSwan> naturally(!)
14/21:16< trentg> Honestly I hadn't heard of IndieCity until about 3 days ago
14/21:17<+ChrisSwan> What if we had a section on the homepage saying something like "A personalised selection of new free games and demos has been prepared for you. Click now to add them ALL to your download client."
14/21:17<+[IC]Digger> its a shame you can't register from the download client
14/21:17<@Er00> Retronator: ah :(
14/21:17< Retronator> It's a shame you can't play in offline mode
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14/21:17< celeron55> for me, as a gamer, downloading the client is a difficult decision to do; as a developer it wasn't much of a problem because i was techinically interested of it - is there any plans to support downloading games without the client?
14/21:17< Retronator> I tested it out while I was on the train - when launching our game it just opened the client and insisted we should login
14/21:18<+ChrisSwan> celeron55 unforunately not, we need that client in order to keep the low rev share.
14/21:18< trentg> And I'm a an indie developer
14/21:18<+ChrisSwan> So it's an obstacle we need to overcome.
14/21:18<@Er00> It might be good if the first game you d/l could come bundled with the client, so in actual fact you're downloading the client as well as the game but it feels like you're only d/ling the game?
14/21:18< trentg> I didn't even know I needed thee client, I was clicking download links and it just took me to the front page
14/21:18< Ragath> you guys should really start marketing more to gamers, i mean us devs will go wherever the gamers go, but the dev->gamer communication is pretty damn low xD
14/21:18< celeron55> Er00: that sounds reasonable
14/21:18<+ChrisSwan> trentg - that's not so good! let's get onto that in a bit ;-)
14/21:19<@Er00> Retronator: odd, you should be able to login when you're offline, but I think that might've been fixed fairly recently so you maybe have an older version of the client?
14/21:19<+[IC]Digger> Er00 its technically like that but the other way round ;)
14/21:19<+[IC]Digger> so you get the client... and some games/demos come with
14/21:19< Retronator> does the client update itself?
14/21:19<@Er00> [IC]Digger: yes :P
14/21:20<+ChrisSwan> Yes, either with your input or without (it's in the options)
14/21:20<@Er00> [IC]Digger: but I think people might be more willing to d/l a game that has a client bundled with it than the other way around
14/21:20<@Er00> if that makes sense?
14/21:20<+[IC]Digger> yep
14/21:20<+[IC]Digger> like urm...
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14/21:20<+[IC]Digger> popcap?
14/21:21<@Er00> I have no idea...
14/21:21<@Er00> I have never specifically gone and got a popcap game :P
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14/21:21<+[IC]Digger> i tried the plants vs zombies demo there
14/21:22<+[IC]Digger> and it installed the whole client thingy
14/21:22< Ragath> Er00, people would propably go nuts over not being able to download subsequent games without using the client tho
14/21:22< trentg> Just a crazy idea, but have each installer optionally download the client?
14/21:22<@Er00> [IC]Digger: don't lie, it was totally for Bejeweled >.>
14/21:22<@Er00> Ragath: really?
14/21:23<+[IC]Digger> Er00: totally ;)
14/21:23<@Er00> and/or Peggle? ;p
14/21:23< Ragath> Er00, yea, stupid ppl dont want to learn 2 different ways to do the same thing
14/21:23<+ChrisSwan> trentg but that means the first game you get, you need the client.
14/21:23<+ChrisSwan> Which is basically what we have.
14/21:23< Chris_Caplan> Oh, question! Will there be any sort of 'special events' on indie city? For example: Indie game face offs, similar to what ludumdare does? Except have the gamers be able to rate the the submissions to pick the winner. In this case, all the submissions would probably have to free to play though..... just a thought
14/21:23< Ragath> and the average person is pretty damn stupid, hence excessive warning labels
14/21:23< trentg> I mean you could download installers from the website
14/21:24<+ChrisSwan> Sounds like we're agreed though that pushing more free content upon sign up would help ease the pain of getting the client..
14/21:24< celeron55> the two largest obstacles for people getting games from indiecity is 1) paying, 2) downloading and using the client
14/21:24< celeron55> this is probably a fact
14/21:24<+ChrisSwan> Chris_Caplan I like it!
14/21:24<+[IC]Digger> how big and obstacle did you lot find the registration process?
14/21:24<+ChrisSwan> celeron55 Yep
14/21:24<+[IC]Digger> *an obstacle
14/21:24< celeron55> registration isn't as much of a problem
14/21:25<+[IC]Digger> thats good to know
14/21:25< celeron55> i guess...
14/21:25<+[IC]Digger> did the flow of the process seem alright
14/21:25<+[IC]Digger> with the verification emails etc
14/21:25< Chris_Caplan> I like the bit of javascript that changes the color of the input boxes, letting you know if they are formatted correctly
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14/21:25< Chris_EF> really crazy idea following on from Chris_Caplan:
14/21:25 * gn0me searching for torrented IndieCity games.. found nothing... :O YET
14/21:25<@Er00> qwebirc31102: you can change your name by typing /nick <name>
14/21:25<@Er00> :)
14/21:26<+[IC]Digger> Chris_Caplan... good man... and its HTML5/CSS3 doing that
14/21:26< Chris_Caplan> Ah, even better
14/21:26< Chris_EF> devs enter their games into the voting competition, gamers enter said competition for £10 (for example).  The game that wins the voting gets the pot
14/21:27< trentg> I'd like discounts for buying > 1 game. Then you have unlimited "bundles" any time you want.
14/21:27< Chris_Caplan> I like Chris_EF. Maybe a lower fee for gamers though. I guess it'd depend on how many games are entered, what sort of games they are, and other factors...
14/21:27< celeron55> maybe there could be stuff like the first (or all) getting a certain achievement in a game would get an another game for free, or something 8)
14/21:27< trentg> You could give a greater discount for gameas from the same dev
14/21:27< Retronator> Er00: I now manually reinstalled the client - am less angry. :) Looks cool actually, darkening down when I launch the game.
14/21:28<@Er00> \o/
14/21:28<@Er00> Glad to hear that ^_^
14/21:28<+ChrisSwan> I'm liking the idea in general - it's also a good opportunity for us to make some noise on a regular basis.
14/21:28< Ragath> Chris_EF, you'd need a gambling license for that i imagine
14/21:28<+ChrisSwan> Always a good thing :-)
14/21:29< Chris_Caplan> Having some sort of special event every month or so would be awesome. Give gamers an initiative to come back and see new things
14/21:29<+ChrisSwan> Yep, definitely a Good Thing.
14/21:29<+ChrisSwan> Shall we carry on into this marketing promo theme?
14/21:30<+ChrisSwan> trentg where did you hear about us?
14/21:30<@Er00> What I'd really like would be community-determined seasonal bundles...unfortunately as the market is now swamped with bundles I'm less keen on this idea than I once was. :(
14/21:30< trentg> Featured games could be cool if you could get people to do reviews for them
14/21:30< Chris_Caplan> Could be other sort of events too. Like: On a certain day, whoever gets the highest score on a particular game wins some credits to go towards new games
14/21:30< trentg> ChrisSwan: Saw a retweet from another dev on twitter
14/21:30< trentg> "Our game is now on IndieCity"
14/21:30<+ChrisSwan> Chris_Caplan yep, keep these ideas coming please :-)
14/21:30< trentg> Indiewhat?
14/21:31<@Er00> trentg: just out of interest, which game was it?
14/21:31<+ChrisSwan> trentg So where on the web could we have been to get your attention beforehand?
14/21:31< trentg> It was Trauma
14/21:31<@Er00> Ah :D
14/21:31<@Er00> Still need to play that :p
14/21:31<+ChrisSwan> or is mainly from making a noise in social networks?
14/21:31<@DrPiD> It's creepy :P
14/21:31< trentg> I'm not sure because I don't frequent too many places
14/21:31< Ragath> Chris_Caplan, that sounds great, as long as we devs dont have to caugh up the cash for all those discount credits
14/21:32<@Er00> well, which places do you frequent?
14/21:32<@Er00> Are you involved with any particular game communities?
14/21:32< Chris_Caplan> There could be a super low entry few for gamers to participate, less than a dollar. And winner gets the pot to spend on new games
14/21:32<@Er00> Like...I'm quite involved with the XNA community so I know I've been talking specifically to XNA devs quite a bit
14/21:32< trentg> I know I've found out about other gaming sites by their staff contacting me asking if I want my game there
14/21:33<@Er00> *nods*
14/21:33< trentg> Er00: Only allegro.cc which is quite a small site traffic wise
14/21:33< trentg> Er00: oh, I sometimes read the apphub forums
14/21:33<@Er00> Any particular sections?
14/21:34<@Er00> I only really read the XBLIG stuff there :$
14/21:34< trentg> XBLIG
14/21:34<@Er00> it's kinda depressing watching it die :(
14/21:34< trentg> Yes
14/21:34<@Er00> Especially since Shawn's not on the team anymore, he's fled over to WP7 :(
14/21:35< trentg> Yeah, it's a shame
14/21:35<@Er00> *nods*
14/21:35< Ragath> you shouldnt worry too much about getting a large number of devs before you launch, focus instead on individually targeting the popular devs so you get a critical mass of mainstream(within the indie scene) games that draw the gamers and us devs will follow suit
14/21:35<@Er00> ah well :)
14/21:35< Ragath> just gotta get the leaders of the pack in the right direction so to speak
14/21:35 * ChrisSwan nods
14/21:35<+ChrisSwan> Ragath but unfortunately it isn't so easy.
14/21:36<+ChrisSwan> A lot of the bigger indie devs want to see that you're succesuful before they commit
14/21:36<+ChrisSwan> It's quite circular.
14/21:36< Ragath> oh im not saying its easy, there's a reason that everyone and their dog isnt running a successfull game portal ;)
14/21:36<+ChrisSwan> Heh
14/21:37<+ChrisSwan> It's certainly something we're working on.
14/21:37<+[IC]Digger> we've had aardman games sign up
14/21:37<+[IC]Digger> to me thats a good sign
14/21:37<+ChrisSwan> Any other promo ideas? I was liking those...
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14/21:37< trentg> Sales are good
14/21:37< trentg> Didn't see a way to have a sale
14/21:38< Ragath> ChrisSwan, yea they dont want to commit pro-bono so to speak, thats why you should target them individually, perhaps with some special deals that makes it lucrative for them to further your cause... cause lets be honest, they currently have to reason to change what they're doing
14/21:38<+ChrisSwan> No there isn't,
14/21:38<+ChrisSwan> currently.
14/21:38<@DrPiD> Ragath: The whole point of IndieCity is to be non-exclusive and not promote other developers due to popularity
14/21:39< Chris_Caplan> This might have been brought up before but.... allow Devs to have the option to offer budle packs? Like buy 3 of their games together for a discount off the total price
14/21:39<@DrPiD> We have said since the beginning that we won't offer special treatment to single devs that we wouldn't offer the whole community
14/21:39< Chris_Caplan> Dev mud wrestling.
14/21:39<+ChrisSwan> trentg We've been working up an idea of devs 'opting in' to a say-weekly sales deal.
14/21:39<@DrPiD> sexy
14/21:39<+ChrisSwan> Chris_Caplan lol
14/21:40<@Er00> Mmm, muddy facial hair.
14/21:40< trentg> ChrisSwan: I like that idea
14/21:40<+ChrisSwan> trentg and then it does a rand() onto which games are chosen
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14/21:40<+ChrisSwan> Something democratic like that.
14/21:40<@Er00> hey Shaduck :)
14/21:40< Ragath> DrPiD, well you wouldnt be introducing exclusivity, altho you would be promoting devs, but that is something i dont know if you can get away from initially and still draw the attention of the top-dogs in the indie scene that has a fanbase that follows where they go
14/21:40<@DrPiD> Ragath: It's still something we're not prepared to do
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14/21:41< trentg> ChrisSwan: my game(s) made more in 1 day on Gameolith due to a 2-pack bundle than every day before and after combined
14/21:41< trentg> People currently LOVE bundles, if that's not already obbvious
14/21:41<+ChrisSwan> It is indeed.
14/21:42< trentg> So a weekly pack of games, would probably do well
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14/21:42<+ChrisSwan> That's another one we've been designing/working up.
14/21:42< Ragath> ppl have always loved bundles, its just that previously all they've gotten is the crap in bargain bins
14/21:42<+ChrisSwan> We were thinking about some kind of method whereby devs could use the forum to suggest a bundle, 'recruit' other devs for it, and then enter the bundle terms via a form on the site.
14/21:43< Chris_Caplan> Not so sure I even like this idea... but: Mystery Game Grab bag!! Take a collection of games that are similar price and give the gamer one chosen completely at random (that they of course haven't already purchased) - and maybe they get it at a little bit of a discount. There could be different price range grab bags
14/21:43<+ChrisSwan> Again with some kind of fair approach for the system to select them.
14/21:43<+ChrisSwan> I quite like that.
14/21:43< Chris_Caplan> The Mystery factor will be soooo great, how could you say no
14/21:44<+ChrisSwan> I like the way it encourages you to go off the beaten track of gaming styles that you normally go for.
14/21:44<@Er00> Yeah, I quite like that too
14/21:44< Ragath> to me the mystery factor is the downside to it :P
14/21:44<@Er00> thank god we aren't all the same :P
14/21:44<@Er00> that would make things FAR too easy
14/21:45< Chris_Caplan> exactly! Gamers will be trying out new games they might not have ever tried otherwise
14/21:45< Retronator> Good luck guys, I'm off to port the game for the mac :) Night
14/21:45< Ragath> not to mention that it wouldnt really generate more money for either IC or the devs, unless it is massively marketed through some previously unused marketing hole
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14/21:45<@Er00> I think it would for some people though
14/21:46<@Er00> Like, imagine you're kinda bored but you don't fancy playing any of the games you have, you could spend a quid and get a random game
14/21:46< Ragath> well if an unpopular game enters, but there is no reason for the popular games to enter
14/21:46<@Er00> like lucky dips, do you not have those in Finland? :P
14/21:46< Ragath> im from sweden dammit :P
14/21:46<@Er00> but this would be better, because lucky dips are full of crap stuff no-one wants, whereas the game you get might be awesome
14/21:46<@Er00> Oh :$
14/21:46<@Er00> well, same diff >.>
14/21:47< Ragath> and no we dont have those
14/21:47<@Er00> *cough*
14/21:47<@Er00> oh, really?
14/21:47<@Er00> Well, do you know what they are?
14/21:47< Chris_Caplan> Maybe there'll have to be some voting system in place to choose what games can be in the mystery bag
14/21:47<+ChrisSwan> Maybe... or the recommendation engine could get involved.
14/21:47< trentg> Mystery bags sound fun
14/21:48<+ChrisSwan> Just as it knows what your favourite gaming styles are, it could also put in a game that is WAY off from your normal fare, but highly rated still.
14/21:48<+[IC]Digger> if you really didn't want it... could you gift it?
14/21:48< Chris_Caplan> Ah! Gifting! I like that idea
14/21:49< Ragath> ChrisSwan, but then if you couple it with discounts either IC would have to be able to absorb the costs or devs would have to be able to opt out once they know which games will be entered(since there's a pure loss for the most popular game in the bag)
14/21:49 * ChrisSwan groans.
14/21:49<+ChrisSwan> Ragath agreed, it would take some working out for sure.
14/21:50<+ChrisSwan> Re: gifting, I know it needs setting up.
14/21:50<+ChrisSwan> I just keep hearing chargeback horror stories.
14/21:50<+ChrisSwan> At the moment you can only get 1 copy of any game, so it's not very tantalising for fraudsters.
14/21:50< trentg> Just make it clear that once it's giifted it's not refundable
14/21:51<+ChrisSwan> Oh - hadn't thought of that!
14/21:51<+ChrisSwan> d'oh!
14/21:51< Ragath> but seeing it as a promotional event for IC makes it quite reasonable for IC to absorb the discount cost dont you think? couldnt have it running all the time, but could be a great idea to have it as a more rare event
14/21:51<+ChrisSwan> :-)
14/21:51 * ChrisSwan stops groaning
14/21:51< Chris_Caplan> The IC Monthly Mystery Bag of Amazing Wonderment!
14/21:52<+ChrisSwan> oohh, I don't think you can make gifting refundable.
14/21:52<+[IC]Digger> if you did it like this...
14/21:52<+ChrisSwan> You can still ring up the credit card company, complain and get a refund...
14/21:52<+[IC]Digger> the random game thing
14/21:52<+[IC]Digger> it pops up on screen
14/21:52<+[IC]Digger> here's your random game
14/21:52<+[IC]Digger> 2 options: I want | Gift
14/21:53<+[IC]Digger> and once you click i want its yours job done
14/21:53<+[IC]Digger> if you click gift you select who
14/21:53<@Er00> You could make it so people can only have one of a particular game on their account at a time and once they downloaded it it was locked to their account, or they could gift it to someone else and then once that's downloaded it's locked to that person's account
14/21:53<+[IC]Digger> job done
14/21:53<@Er00> That way people couldn't buy 100s of a game and charge them back
14/21:53<@Er00> but only one at a time
14/21:54<@Er00> and if they charged back based on faultyness, having already d/led the game...yeah
14/21:54<@Er00> that would be obviously stupid
14/21:54<@Er00> so, I think that we'd be ok
14/21:55<+ChrisSwan> Ok, let's assume we can suss that one ok.
14/21:55<+ChrisSwan> Next!
14/21:55<+ChrisSwan> ;-)
14/21:55< Chris_Caplan> Will there be a "featured game of the week" type thing?
14/21:55< trentg> The problem is, if it gets gifted around enough it'll eventually possibly find a computer it doesn't work on or something ::)
14/21:55< Ragath> you might be ok, could be another story for the devs that gets a penalty for the chargeback costs, i mean they dont even have any say on how/if they're contested
14/21:56<@Er00> Ragath: by "we" I mean both IC and the dev
14/21:56< Ragath> i just imagine devs going bankrupt due to chargeback costs from mass scams xD
14/21:56<@Er00> Chris_Caplan: I don't think so, because of the way we're trying to push personalised recommendation-based pages
14/21:57<@Er00> Rather than having blocks of games that are the same on everyone's page
14/21:57< Chris_Caplan> Ah, I see
14/21:57<+ChrisSwan> Ok, my turn for an off the wall one:
14/21:57<+ChrisSwan> how about a friend invite system, but when you invite a friend you 'pre-select' their gaming preferences, and it generates a bundle of free games and demos for them?
14/21:58<+[IC]Digger> sounds cool
14/21:58<+[IC]Digger> as long as you know your friend
14/21:58<@Er00> I don't think I know my friends' gaming preferences well enough to be accurate
14/21:58<@DrPiD> +1
14/21:58<+ChrisSwan> So you could select 'randomise' if you didn't?
14/21:59< Ragath> if you could pick individual games to recommend in the invite it would be another matter tho
14/21:59<+ChrisSwan> Just trying to think of a way of using friend invites that is a) different and b) effective...
14/21:59<+ChrisSwan> Maybe that's the way?
14/21:59< Chris_Caplan> Oh! Idea involving sorting options for games. Have a button that says: "Random 4 games" and it pulls up 4 random games, and shows them side by side, with descriptions and a screen shot or two for each. So games can see a little bit more info than just the name of the game small picture
14/22:00<@Er00> Thinking back to the "getting people to sign up" thing, maybe it would be good if there could be a "guest" preferences thing, and then when you'd submitted that it presented with your games and invited you to sign up to save these and start downloading?
14/22:00< Ragath> honestly i dont think randomising the content in invites would be all that effective, i mean it could/would leave a lot of crap on the surface to greet the potential users on their first impression
14/22:00<+ChrisSwan> Chris_Caplan is that as another filter?
14/22:01<+ChrisSwan> Ragath fair point.
14/22:01< Chris_Caplan> Yes, I was thinking that'd be a filter
14/22:01<+ChrisSwan> Personally I think you're alla bit weird: I'm pretty sure I have a good handle on the kinds of games a lot of my mates would like.
14/22:01<+ChrisSwan> :-p
14/22:04<@Er00> Really?
14/22:04<@Er00> I think you're the odd one. :P
14/22:04< trentg> I would have no clue
14/22:04<@Er00> I know what a couple of my friends like, but the majority of them...not a clue :P
14/22:04<@Er00> DrPiD: what type of games do you like? :D
14/22:04< Ragath> i just imagine the scenario being: pong-clone 1564694, random-themed match-3 6548946, my first game 464664, didnt know wtf i was doing online 46464
14/22:04<@DrPiD> Umm.
14/22:04<@DrPiD> Good question :D
14/22:05<@Er00> See :P
14/22:05<+ChrisSwan> Like I said: weird
14/22:06< Ragath> i know what games me and my friends like... the good ones
14/22:06< Ragath> if thats a category then im all for it
14/22:06<@Er00> lol
14/22:06<+[IC]Digger> well you could have an option to recommend the game you have rated highly
14/22:06<+[IC]Digger> like the demos of them or something
14/22:06<@Er00> I don't think there's a category for that in terms of filling in the survey, but you would be able to view by ratings I think from what we were discussing earlier about filters
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14/22:07< Ragath> something like having a review that gives it an honest 7+/10 in gameplay/graphics/music/story
14/22:10<+ChrisSwan> Wow, this meeting's been going for over 2 hours!
14/22:10<+ChrisSwan> Any more for anymore? Or shall we leave it there for this one?
14/22:11<+ChrisSwan> Going once...
14/22:11<+[IC]Digger> thinking...
14/22:11<+ChrisSwan> Going twice...
14/22:12<+ChrisSwan> Ding ding! That's it then - meeting over!
14/22:12< Chris_Caplan> This has been fun, farewell everyone
14/22:12<+ChrisSwan> Well I think that was really useful - thanks everybody!
14/22:12<+ChrisSwan> Cheers Chris_Caplan
14/22:12<+ChrisSwan> i think we should hold another one soon :-)
14/22:12<+[IC]Digger> nice one all
14/22:13<+[IC]Digger> LAB!
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14/22:14< ponyodev|inmanch>  have any gamers actually come?
14/22:16<+[IC]Digger> where's theFinn
14/22:16<+[IC]Digger> he's a gamer
14/22:16< JibbSmart> I'm a gamer -- but more interested in this discussion as a developer; and I'm working at the same time, so I haven't been investing the thought to come up with any worth-while suggestions
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14/22:17<+[IC]Digger> fair enough
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