Removal of Nyan Cats: how to preserve them in worlds

paramat
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Removal of Nyan Cats: how to preserve them in worlds

by paramat » Sun Mar 26, 2017 03:15

Image

^ Peanut Butter & Jelly Pup

See details here:
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1647
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/1658

For legal reasons the nyancat mod must now be a separate mod you add yourself, instead of being included in MTGame.
The PB&J Pup mod has been added to MTGame.

Nyan Cats in your world will not be lost or replaced due to the default settings of the PB&J Pup mod.
All you need to do is grab the Nyancat mod folder from MTGame and add it to your MT mod folder when you upgrade to the new version of MTGame which does not include the nyancat mod.

Even if you do not manage to do this straight away your nyancat nodes will not be lost, they will appear as 'unknown' nodes, but once you add the nyancat mod these nodes wil turn back into Nyan Cats.

//////////////////////////////////////////////////

If you don't care about your Nyan Cat nodes you have the option to replace them with the PB&J Pup, see the settings in that mod.
If you don't like the PB&J Pup there is also a setting to disable its generation. The settings and defaults are:

Code: Select all
#    Enable the PB&J Pup mod entirely
pbj_pup_enable (Enable PB&J pup mod) bool true

#    Generate PB&J Pup blocks in the world
pbj_pup_generate (Generate PBJ Pup blocks in world) bool true

#    Let the PB&J Pup mod replace Nyan Cat nodes
pbj_pup_alias_nyancat (Replace Nyan Cat blocks) bool false
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Re: Removal of Nyan Cats: how to preserve them in worlds

by Sergey » Sun Mar 26, 2017 03:46

Vote for Grumpy cat!

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Re: Removal of Nyan Cats: how to preserve them in worlds

by Wuzzy » Sun Mar 26, 2017 15:33

Hey, it's not April 1 yet! So I assume this is just random trolling.

This story is wrong on so many levels:

- IANAL, BUT: How do you know that Nyan Cat is trademarked? If that's the case, who owns the trademark? In which jurisdiction and for which commercial activity? Even if it is trademarked, trademarks do not neccessarily have infinite scope. Also: If Minetest would take down anything which might be trademarked, there wouldn't be much left. It would probably be impossible to create a “trademark-free game”, I suppose.
- Of which law specifically in which country specifically are you afraid of?
- Have you talked to a lawyer about this?

Even if you do not manage to do this straight away your nyancat nodes will not be lost, they will appear as 'unknown' nodes, but once you add the nyancat mod these nodes wil turn back into Nyan Cats.

Great, now in existing worlds there is a low chance to find lines of unknown nodes, so this change introduces a bug. This is completely unacceptable. Many players will be unaware of this news post because not everyone visits the Minetest forums, so there will definitely players affected by this.

Also, the instructions are too complicated. Why is the player bothered to tamper with these confusing mods only to make Minetet Game work normally? Isn't it possible to make the change so that it works out of the box for everyone? This is actually the biggest concern I have about this, not so much about the loss of the nyan cat, actually.

And finally: The Peanut Butter & Jelly Pup looks REALLY crappy. THIS is the best you came up with as a replacement? Please … :-(
The other problem is that it completely destroys the joke.

Not that I care about this easter egg block that much because it is very rare. But since you can obtain it in creative mode, you definitely can NOT have a crappy replacement. I would rather have no nyan cat at all (which I still doubt is actually neccessary to remove it) than a crappy replacement.


As I said, this definitely must be some high-profile trolling. Because no sane person would do so much fuzz about a 16×16 pixel cartoon cat. Right? RIGHT?!
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Re: Removal of Nyan Cats: how to preserve them in worlds

by sfan5 » Sun Mar 26, 2017 18:00

As an easier alternative you can download a copy of the old nyancat mod below.
nyancat.zip
(3.34 KiB) Downloaded 71 times
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Re: Removal of Nyan Cats: how to preserve them in worlds

by maikerumine » Sun Mar 26, 2017 20:06

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyan_Cat <--yes iT IS TRADEMARK'D
Christopher Torres apparently owns it now.

Lawsuit
In May 2013, Christopher Torres and Charles Schmidt, the creators of Nyan Cat and Keyboard Cat respectively, jointly sued 5th Cell and Warner Bros. for copyright infringement and trademark infringement over the appearance of these characters without permission in the Scribblenauts series of video games. Torres and Schmidt have registered copyrights on their characters and have pending trademark applications on the names.[25][26] Torres released a statement saying that he had tried to obtain compensation from 5th Cell and Warner Bros. for commercial use of the character, but was "disrespected and snubbed" multiple times.[27][28] The suit was settled in September 2013, with Torres and Schmidt being paid for the use of the characters.[29]

How fekkin lame. Nyan Cat is MT and always will be in my mind.

:/
 

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@!$§%§&§[email protected]!

by Wuzzy » Sun Mar 26, 2017 20:22

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyan_Cat <--yes iT IS TRADEMARK'D

https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=85357643 wrote: For:
Computer application software for use with mobile phones and portable media players, namely, software for manipulating a character through a series of challenges displayed on the device's screen or monitor

@!"@&%!&!
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Re: Removal of Nyan Cats: how to preserve them in worlds

by Melkor » Sun Mar 26, 2017 23:40

WA? Really? not 1st April? i don't care about the nyan cat, but this sound stupid, they sued the Minetest developers?

[Grumpy cat has] my vote!
 

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Re: Removal of Nyan Cats: how to preserve them in worlds

by VanessaE » Mon Mar 27, 2017 00:33

They sued Warner Bros. and won. The last thing we need is for the same thing to happen to MT because Torres decides some day not to honor his "okay for non-commercial use" declaration.
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Re: Removal of Nyan Cats: how to preserve them in worlds

by Melkor » Mon Mar 27, 2017 00:53

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Re: Removal of Nyan Cats: how to preserve them in worlds

by ExeterDad » Mon Mar 27, 2017 01:47

Ya know... a well written letter to the right person, may get us permission to use a Grumpy Cat instead of a Pop Tart cat. Who know's?
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Re: Removal of Nyan Cats: how to preserve them in worlds

by paramat » Mon Mar 27, 2017 02:55

Wuzzy read the issue.

> Isn't it possible to make the change so that it works out of the box for everyone?

No. The settings and new mod have also been carefully designed for an optimum transition, see the PR thread.
 

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Re: Removal of Nyan Cats: how to preserve them in worlds

by firefox » Mon Mar 27, 2017 08:10

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Re: Removal of Nyan Cats: how to preserve them in worlds

by Wuzzy » Mon Mar 27, 2017 15:38

Hmmm, this raises some interesting legal/philosophical questions:
It was possible to sue Warner Bros. because they are clearly based in the U.S. and violated an U.S. trademark.

Minetest is based in … I don't know. There is no legal entity behind Minetest, nor is there any “Minetest Company” or something like this. Minetest is developed by many people all over the world, U.S. people are just a part of it. So it is not really obvious in which country Minetest is “based”. There is not even a clear “lead developer” anymore.

What if someone registers a French trademark on another concept? Or a trademark in Russia (is this even possible?). Will Minetest developers obey those, too? Do you maybe just assume that U.S. law = global law? This is not a good concept, the U.S. (or any other country) should NOT be the world police.

The question this raises is: Will Minetest developers try to obey every single trademark law on the world? And what makes you think that U.S. trademark law applies to Minetest specifically?

Then, who exactly would have to be sued if there would be a legal case? And where? I have no idea.

Another question: Did you do this just to cover your own asses or did you do this to cover everyone's asses, just in case?


Also, this is an interesting political situation in which we are here: Basically PRGuitarman has the power to censor nyan cat out of any video game. At least in the U.S. It's weird why there hasn't been a shitstorm about this already. ;-)
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PB&J Pup

by Wuzzy » Mon Mar 27, 2017 17:21

I just tested PB&J Pup in the developer version of Minetest Game and want to give some comments:

First of all, it's even sillier than the nyan cat. xD I still don't really like it.
I didn't know the PB&J Pup Candies are animated. That's interesting. It is tiling quite nicely (except at chunk borders :/) and could be interesting for funky walls.

But it is REALLY annoying over time, because it constantly emits barking sounds. This should be changed.
It seems the PB&J Pup Candies also emit sounds randomly. Candies which bark? Come on! xD

I would also suggest to keep the Nyan Cat Rainbow, but rename it simply to “Rainbow” and make it only available in Creative Mode. It is frequently used in decoration. If the mere concept of a rainbow is trademarked as well, then everything is lost and we can shutdown the Internet. xD

I'm not sure if it is a good idea to make those blocks eatable. The Nyan Cat blocks were often held as trophies. Making the PB&J Pup and PB&J Pup Candies eatable means the can be accidentally destroyed, which may make players very angry and sad. xD
PB&J Pup Candies should not emit a barking sound when eaten.

The name “PB&J Pup” is a bit confusing, especially for non-U.S. citicens. It's a mostly cultural reference. But I don't think it's important, because the name “Nyan Cat” doesn't make much sense either. ;-)

To be honest, the current quality of PB&J Pup is too bad even for Minetest Game's standards. It should be either improved or removed into an independent mod.

I still want to believe this is an early April 1st joke.
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Re: Removal of Nyan Cats: how to preserve them in worlds

by ExeterDad » Mon Mar 27, 2017 17:30

The Nyan Cat is a Pop Tart cat. Isn't Pop-Tarts® a registered trademark of Kelloggs? It says so right on the box. It should be a "toaster pastry" cat if PRGauitarman wanted to protect himself.
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Re: Removal of Nyan Cats: how to preserve them in worlds

by Wuzzy » Mon Mar 27, 2017 18:01

paramat wrote:Wuzzy read the issue.

> Isn't it possible to make the change so that it works out of the box for everyone?

No. The settings and new mod have also been carefully designed for an optimum transition, see the PR thread.

I call bullshit on that one. If the users end up with <unknown node> by default, this is a sign of shoddy design. I also disagree with your reasoning in the issue, it doesn't address my other concerns.

You could add an alias to the old nyan cat nodes UNLESS the nyancat mod is found.
Meaning:
No nyancat mod installed: → Alias to PB&J Pub (or whatever you like)
Nyancat mod installed: → NO alias, just let the nyancat mod do its deed

My main concern is to prevent 100% that players see unknown nodes after updating.
Or is backwards-compability not a design goal of Minetest Game anymore?

PS: I still want to believe this is an early April 1st joke.
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Re: Removal of Nyan Cats: how to preserve them in worlds

by VanessaE » Mon Mar 27, 2017 21:42

Looking at the PB&J Pup code as committed to mt_game, there's nothing that should cause the candies or head to make any kind of noise just randomly.

Rather, you should get a one-time barking sound when you eat the candies, or repeated howling for about 5 minutes after you "use" (punch with) the head block, in addition to other features. I think I'd have preferred a one-time howl also, or a shorter duration of repeats at least, but I didn't code the sounds.

As for the appearance, I'm sure mt_game devs will be happy to take pull requests if you think the textures suck. When I drew them, I was trying to make something as cute and silly as the nyan cat, and appealing to kids as well as adults who haven't forgot how to be silly. :-) I went with a pb&j sandwich because I wanted something that's as much a non-sequitur as a pop tart, and as instantly recognizable (or even moreso) to the same audience as the nyan cat.
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Re: Removal of Nyan Cats: how to preserve them in worlds

by TumeniNodes » Tue Mar 28, 2017 00:44

I mentioned this before but, will again :P

I had thought of a pot-o-gold...
This way the rainbow can still remain and make sense and, these pots of gold could also hold treasures in them for those who find them.

So, a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow, which contains a prize (and prizes could be random) maybe an ore, or a tool, the combo could be random and endless---ish

the pup is cute but, maybe could be better as a cute & trainable mob
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Re: Removal of Nyan Cats: how to preserve them in worlds

by Melkor » Tue Mar 28, 2017 01:32

Wuzzy wrote:
PS: I still want to believe this is an early April 1st joke.


I dont like the copyright stuff, but im starting to believe this is an elaborated joke.

Anyway, i like more the grumpy cat :D is copyrighted?
 

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Re: PB&J Pup

by dawgdoc » Tue Mar 28, 2017 03:04

Wuzzy wrote:
The name “PB&J Pup” is a bit confusing, especially for non-U.S. citicens. It's a mostly cultural reference. But I don't think it's important, because the name “Nyan Cat” doesn't make much sense either. ;-)



Whatever happens, please don't anyone change the name to Vegemite Pup --- that stuff will kill you. (Besides being cultural.)
 

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Re: Removal of Nyan Cats: how to preserve them in worlds

by Sergey » Tue Mar 28, 2017 05:27

Who the hell is PB&J Pup?

Something from US cartoon TV series?
What about something from Soviet cartoons? Americans will not worry about? Or will they ask the same question "Who the hell is..."?

By the way, I did not know anything about Nyan cat either.
 

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Re: Removal of Nyan Cats: how to preserve them in worlds

by VanessaE » Tue Mar 28, 2017 06:54

It's just something I thought up. Not based on anything anywhere.
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Re: PB&J Pup

by Linuxdirk » Tue Mar 28, 2017 08:24

dawgdoc wrote:Whatever happens, please don't anyone change the name to Vegemite Pup --- that stuff will kill you. (Besides being cultural.)

When changing the name to "Vegemite Pup" we'll have the same situation as with the "Nyan Cat" (trademark-related issues).
 

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Re: Removal of Nyan Cats: how to preserve them in worlds

by paramat » Tue Mar 28, 2017 20:39

Wuzzy wrote:I call bullshit on that one. If the users end up with <unknown node> by default, this is a sign of shoddy design. I also disagree with your reasoning in the issue, it doesn't address my other concerns.

You could add an alias to the old nyan cat nodes UNLESS the nyancat mod is found.
Meaning:
No nyancat mod installed: → Alias to PB&J Pub (or whatever you like)
Nyancat mod installed: → NO alias, just let the nyancat mod do its deed

I don't think that word is suitable for an all-ages forum (although it doesn't bother me).

If the nyancat nodes were aliased to the pup in the situation of the nyancat mod not being installed, then anyone who has not seen this thread (there will be many) will suddeny lose the most valuable nodes in their world with no way of getting them back.
As i wrote the transition has been carefully designed so that no-one loses their nyancat nodes even if they update without seeing this thread. This inevitably means that those in that situation will see unknown nodes in their world.

This should be obvious from what i wrote above:

"Nyan Cats in your world will not be lost or replaced due to the default settings of the PB&J Pup mod.
[...]
Even if you do not manage to do this straight away your nyancat nodes will not be lost, they will appear as 'unknown' nodes, but once you add the nyancat mod these nodes wil turn back into Nyan Cats."
 

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Re: Removal of Nyan Cats: how to preserve them in worlds

by rubenwardy » Tue Mar 28, 2017 23:40

paramat wrote:
Wuzzy wrote:I call bullshit on that one. If the users end up with <unknown node> by default, this is a sign of shoddy design. I also disagree with your reasoning in the issue, it doesn't address my other concerns.

You could add an alias to the old nyan cat nodes UNLESS the nyancat mod is found.
Meaning:
No nyancat mod installed: → Alias to PB&J Pub (or whatever you like)
Nyancat mod installed: → NO alias, just let the nyancat mod do its deed

I don't think that word is suitable for an all-ages forum (although it doesn't bother me).

If the nyancat nodes were aliased to the pup in the situation of the nyancat mod not being installed, then anyone who has not seen this thread (there will be many) will suddeny lose the most valuable nodes in their world with no way of getting them back.
As i wrote the transition has been carefully designed so that no-one loses their nyancat nodes even if they update without seeing this thread. This inevitably means that those in that situation will see unknown nodes in their world.

This should be obvious from what i wrote above:

"Nyan Cats in your world will not be lost or replaced due to the default settings of the PB&J Pup mod.
[...]
Even if you do not manage to do this straight away your nyancat nodes will not be lost, they will appear as 'unknown' nodes, but once you add the nyancat mod these nodes wil turn back into Nyan Cats."


I'm pretty sure that aliases don't cause renaming of blocks, only blocks to be interpretted differently.

Would need confirmation however.
 

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Re: Removal of Nyan Cats: how to preserve them in worlds

by VanessaE » Tue Mar 28, 2017 23:48

As far as I know, that is the case. An alias won't change a node in-world, it'll just map it to something else for display - at least until you DIG one of them (or /give), then you get whatever it was aliased to. Ditto if an ABM or LBM comes around to change those nodes in-world, but that won't be the case here.
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Re: Removal of Nyan Cats: how to preserve them in worlds

by maikerumine » Wed Mar 29, 2017 16:26

I was thinking we could make an Argyle crocodile where the rainbow is made from Argyle coloured nodes and the cat is a new animal or even pixel art of celeron's face
 

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Re: Removal of Nyan Cats: how to preserve them in worlds

by XtremeHacker » Fri Mar 31, 2017 02:47

I feel a completely new replacement would make the most sense, PB & J pup just seems like a not so good clone, at the least, if we don't get a good replacement, I'll try making some new textures (me = art-related nut).
Maybe a mese creature snake thingy, or mese something? Makes sense IMO, makes mese make more sense too. :P
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Re: Removal of Nyan Cats: how to preserve them in worlds

by paramat » Sat Apr 01, 2017 03:36

I'm not sure about aliases either, i was hoping they do change the node name in the world database so that old node names don't hang around (which feels messy). Maybe if a mapblock is altered and resaved into the database then the node names change?
 

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Re: Removal of Nyan Cats: how to preserve them in worlds

by TenPlus1 » Sat Apr 01, 2017 08:39

Aliases change the node so long as the alias is active and removing it returns the node to an unknown... To keep nyan's and pb&j pups try using this replacement mod: github.com/tenplus1/pbj_pup
 

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